Juliet, Naked: Q&A with Producers Albert Berger and Ron Yerxa
By Annette Graham, DC Film Society Member
Juliet, Naked (Jesse Peretz, 2018) was shown August 13 at Landmark's E Street Cinema with two of the film's producers, Albert Berger and Ron Yerxa, present to answer audience questions. Chris O'Dowd, Rose Byrne and Ethan Hawke star in this comedy based on the novel by Nick Hornby.
Moderator: You seem to somehow find and make films that make us fall in love with dysfunctional people. (audience laughs). How did Juliet, Naked come to be?
Albert Berger: That was a book by Nick Hornby and we read it in manuscript and brought it to Judd Apatow who we knew was a fan of Nick's work and is a great producer, director and writer himself. Judd agreed to pick up the option on the book and develop the screenplay with us. And then we went to some old friends Jim Taylor and Tamara Jenkins. Jim wrote Election and Sideways and he's Alexander Payne's writing partner. And Tamara is a really excellent director. So they came in to write the adaptation.
Moderator: And how many years ago was it that you read the manuscript? Just to give us an idea of how long it takes to make a film.
Ron Yerxa: Five, six years ago.
Moderator: So, short by your average.
Albert Berger: Sometimes these things take forever. We've had films that took 10 years.
Moderator: In your introduction you said there was quite a bit of improv. There are so many great lines in this film. Could you give us an idea of some that were improv and not in the script?
Albert Berger: "Stevie F... Wonder." Chris O'Dowd is like an improv machine. Chris is fundamentally a comedic actor and Ethan is fundamentally a dramatic actor and Rose can go both ways. They are all very quick on their feet. The script was excellent but they took it to a new level.
Moderator: When you're doing a film, at what moment when you are on the set do you realize that the actors are really clicking? Can you tell that right away?
Ron Yerxa: I don't think right away, but we were fortunate because Rose Byrne was so great and accommodating to everybody. It was set up that two men are fighting over her. And when you have two actors you wonder how that's going to be because it's a delicate balance--who's the most charismatic and attractive and desirable. It could have been fighting over lines. There's a lot of rehearsal. There's some sense of how it would work out for Tucker to have such an irresponsible life and still be a desirable lover and for awhile we felt that Duncan, even though a nerd and self-involved, just by charm to be overwhelming. It took a lot of back and forth, but luckily it was really a smooth production. There weren't any dramatic fights, there weren't any fights at all.
Albert Berger: There was the Rose Byrne thing.
Ron Yerxa: When you get even three actors together it's often such a jigsaw puzzle. They are in demand. They have TV series they have other films. We had to keep pushing dates for one reason or another. The final push was a big one to accommodate Chris O'Dowd who was, with his wife, having a child and that pushed Rose and Ethan Hawke back, and because of that...
Albert Berger: ... we had delayed for that and then we learned as we were about to get ready for pre-production that Rose was pregnant. Here is a whole movie about a woman who wants a baby. She said not to worry about it because the first time she had a child she didn't show at all until the seventh or eighth month and we were going to be filming during the fifth and sixth month and sure enough, we get to the fifth month and she was like enormous. (audience laughs) I don't know if anyone noticed but in almost every scene in the movie, she has bags in front of her or a table; when she is listening to the album on the bed, she has the bed in front of her. We had to use a body double too. It was quite a crazy thing.
Moderator: Everyone always asks how did you get started? You have been working together for almost 30 years. Is it true that you got your first producing gig because you got kicked out of a party at Sundance?
Ron Yerxa: Yes. (audience laughs). It was Sundance 1989. Albert and I went together; we had never done anything. It was sort of the symbolic start of our partnership although each of us kept a different job for another year. We had an agreement with an agent that we could shop this one book called This Boy's Life. We went to the festival; at that time it wasn't a big crowded thing. But we did get thrown out of a party because we tried to get two friends into a little reception by duplicating this ink-shaped bear on your hand when they stamp you going in. We thought we'd done an incredibly good job. We borrowed an ink pad from the hotel desk and traced it on their hands. But magically the guy at the door said, "This doesn't look right" and threw us all out. So we went to the first showing of Sex, Lies, and Videotape and that's where we met Steven Soderbergh and he became the director of our first film King of the Hill.
Moderator: I read that when you told them you had the book he thought you had the rights to it.
Albert Berger: Right, he said that when we told him we owned it, he thought we owned the rights, not just a physical copy. (audience laughs)
Moderator: Election was your big breakout comedy. How did that come about? Where did that script come from?
Albert Berger: A friend of ours was in a writers' colony and she had heard this novelist Tom Perrotta read from his new novel The Wishbones. She said she thought The Wishbones would make a great movie and we should approach Tom. We called him. We had read his short story collection Bad Haircut and told him we'd love to read The Wishbones. He said he wasn't done writing it but had an unpublished manuscript called Election but he couldn't sell it because you couldn't tell if it was a literary novel or a young adult novel. He described what it was about, we thought it sounded great and we brought the manuscript to our mutual firend David Gale who set up Election.
Moderator: You had Reese Witherspoon and Matthew Broderick and Alexander Payne. That's another thing you're known for, is working with actors and directors who mainly did one or two films, and helping either launch, or in the case of Bruce Dern, resurrecting their careers.
Albert Berger: When we first started as producers, people wouldn't send us scripts so almost everything we did was based on books, books that had sort of fallen through the cracks. That, combined with finding very strong independent directors at festivals like Sundance and bringing them into studios with the books to make their first studio film. That was our strategy. Steven Soderbergh's first studio film was King of the Hill; Alexander's was Election; Todd Field's was Little Children.
Moderator: Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris for Little Miss Sunshine?
Albert Berger: That was actually their first film. They were commercial directors. We had admired their music videos and thought they'd be good for that.
Moderator: And that script came from where?
Ron Yerxa: When we did Election, we dealt with Matthew Broderick's assistant Michael Arndt, but we didn't know he was an aspiring writer. Years later he brought us this script he had written and that was Little Miss Sunshine.
Moderator: Do you always agree? How do you work on your projects? How does it work? You've been together longer than you've been married to your spouses. (audience laughs)
Albert Berger: We certainly always don't agree. But it seems that if one of us really likes something, the other one won't stop it. We tend to have similar tastes. I don't think there's anything we made where the other one thought, " We can't do this." Although we've come close.
Moderator: Ron's not saying anything.
Ron Yerxa: It's kind of a benign anarchy. We don't have a method or a structure. It's nice that it's worked out well because we certainly aren't going to be writing any how-to-do-it management style books. Except that you show up every morning.
Albert Berger: This one was interesting because we were making this at the same time as another movie. We also have partners on this Judd Apatow and Barry Mendel. Ron was primarily on this and I was on the other thing Peanut Butter Falcon and I came in for the middle and last part. It's an example of a lot of people doing really incredible work. We were working with other producers who had a completely different method than we did. They believed in having many writers and many editors. We usually only work with one person all the way through so it was a bit of a compromise but in this case Sabine Hoffman is great with drama and character and the next guy Rob Nassau came in to work with her and he is great at comedy. It was Rob's idea to do the Chris O'Dowd wraparound scenes at the beginning and end. Rob was excellent with scenes like the hospital scene. There's a lot of balls in the air with a scene like that. Sabine was great with the correspondence. We had to adapt our methods to embrace partners. A lot of things happened on this movie that were unexpected and turned out great. There was a lot of tension over the music for instance, but I think that ultimately turned out really well.
Moderator: And the ending? You had some back and forth on that.
Albert Berger: (mutters) Oh God. (audience laughs)
Ron Yerxa: Because of the changing times and people's opinions and orientations of the book, it is somewhat clearer that she goes to American to be with Tucker.
Albert Berger: Isn't she pregnant from that one night they had together and she's going to America to be with him.
Ron Yerxa: I guess she is. I guess it's clear in the book that she's pregnant. We had different versions and many drafts of the screenplay and some people felt this is a story of a woman becoming empowered and autonomous and she wouldn't just be won over by Tucker Crowe and go to live with him. There was a lot of back and forth discussion up until the very last minute. The ending we have now, which seems to work pretty well for most people, has some of all those possibilities for her life.
Albert Berger: And for the ending now, she is actually pregnant in the movie and she was pregnant in real life but we were hiding that fact. When you make a movie you are often figuring things out retroactively. With the correspondence and all the voiceover you can change what you are showing.
Moderator: You are not studio producers and you have retained your independent spirit but you work closely with studios. How unusual is that? How does that work?
Ron Yerxa: We are wherever there is an opportunity. Some films that feel like they are independent films, like Nebraska, are actually totally Paramount Film financed and distributed, as was Election. And we have done purely independent films where the financing comes from a variety of different sources including one that is in post-production called Peanut Butter Falcon.
Albert Berger: This film feels like a studio film from ten years ago but it's purely independent. I hope they keep making movies like this. It seems like a bit of a throwback and I think, in a good way..
Audience Question: How do you go about casting for a movie like this?
Albert Berger: Rose Byrne is an actress that we've loved for a long time. It seemed she would be perfect for this. Judd and Barry had worked with her in Bridesmaids and things like that. We just thought she would be a great choice. Ethan was younger than the character as written but we thought that would help in the chemistry. He was supposed to be a more broken down guy, like at first we were talking about Jeff Bridges. (audience laughs) But we thought that Ethan would be a much fresher way to go. Chris O'Dowd is someone that Jesse [Peretz] the director just loved. That third-wheel character can be very annoying in movies but he is so funny and so unexpected that Jesse just insisted on him and insisted on waiting for him through his wife's pregnancy. They all were very different but it felt like a nice casting.
Audience Question: Which one of your movies did you learn the most from and what did you learn?
Ron Yerxa: That's a brain teaser. (audience laughs) Because it was so seminal in our early development, Election stands out. It's a kind of comedy but also with a lot of connection to the social fabric and the contradictions in this culture which we like to specialize in--the class divide and kind of craziness that happens in this society when people feel they have to achieve. It's not enough to be a teacher, and the student doesn't want to be a teacher and is condescending even though it's a position of authority. It's gotten through a lot of our work. We learn just by embracing it and maybe it's our nature anyhow that things that somehow are entertaining are connected to real and painful aspects of the way American culture has worked.
Albert Berger: One thing we really learned on Election, and it's our favorite film of the ones we've done. We set it up at MTV films at Paramount. They thought this would be great, it would be a movie for kids with a rocking sound track. But really kids had no interest in that movie. We made the movie and the studio said, "Hold on a second. You had promised that you were making a PG-13 movie and this movie is R." And we said, "Yes but you signed off on the script." And they said, "But kids won't even be able to get it and see it." And we said, "Well you shouldn't have approved the script." The thing we learned as producers is that your job is to push the problems further and further into the process to the point where there's nothing they can do about it. (audience laughs). That has repeated itself time and time again. One movie I learned a lot on was The Switch, which wasn't really a characteristic movie for us. It was based on a story in the New Yorker by Jeff Eugenides who is a great fiction writer. It was about a kind of ugly guy who is infatuated with this woman who is his best friend. She wants to get pregnant and she wants a donor. He says, "How about me?" And she says "Thanks but no thanks. I love you, you're my best friend but I won't have a baby with you." She is having an "I'm getting pregnant" party and she has sperm in the refrigerator. In a rage he steals the donor's sperm and supplies his own. That was the story it was based on. We had cast Philip Seymour Hoffman and Kate Winslet, so it was true to the concept of the movie. But at the last second they both fell out. Then Jennifer Aniston read the script and said I'll do it if you can make it in eight weeks. The studio said, "Okay. we'll make it but we want Jason Bateman" and we were like "Oh my God this is not the concept at all." Jason Bateman could not be a cuter guy. The whole concept was out of the window. Thus began an entire preproduction and production of rewriting and rewriting. It was an exercise in chaos. But the movie works and it's kind of charming and has a very live feel to it. A film is an organic thing. It's like trying to hold a tiger by the tail. You just have to go with it. It's one of the great joys we've had in movies. This was a great example of trying to stay on top of this twisting turning thing.
Audience Question: Were you influenced by other Nick Hornby's adaptations, High Fidelity, Fever Pitch, About a Boy? Did any of those resonate when thinking about making this film?
Albert Berger: Those are all movies we liked to different degrees. I think this is a very good adaptation of that book. There are things that you'll recognize if you read the book and things that are very different. Each movie is it's own thing. I don't thing we were really influenced. We just knew that Nick Hornby has a great tradition of his books becoming movies. Todd Perrotta is a writer we work a lot with too. He did Election, Little Children and The Leftovers. They are both very accessible to audiences. Todd is sort of the American version of Nick in a way. We knew there was a good possible movie in this material.
Audience Question: Do you still have an option on The Abstinence Teacher? Is it still on your radar?
Ron Yerxa: It's on our radar and we talk about it. There are no immediate plans to revive it. We like that project a lot and spent a lot of time working on it.
Albert Berger: We are considering The Abstinence Teacher as a long form television project. That's probably the best project we haven't figured out yet.
Audience Question: What is it like working with Ethan Hawke?
Albert Berger: Ethan is a fantastic actor. He is smart; he came up with that whole backstory in the movie about leaving the baby in the sink. We had much worse backstories and Ethan said, "I've got an idea." He is having a great year. Coming up, he just directed a movie called Blaze which is about to open, about Blaze Foley, who is a great Austin musician. I guess that's the second film he's directed. And also the Paul Schrader movie, First Reformed. He couldn't be smarter and more collaborative. I think he's really coming into his own at this point.
Ron Yerxa: And his charm really made that character work. That could have gone so wrong. He pulled it off.
Albert Berger: He was kind of channelling Nick Nolte (audience laughs).
Audience Question: The little boy made an impression in film. Have you worked with him before?
Ron Yerxa: We never worked with him before.
Albert Berger: He was somebody that Jesse just auditioned. The thing that was really great about him was that we felt authentic. He wasn't doing that cute kid thing too much, although he sure was cute. It wasn't a problem at all with him.
Audience Question: If time and money wasn't a problem, what would be your dream project?
Albert Berger: For me there's a project we have worked on for 20 years, called Me and Big Joe. It's something that guitar player Mike Bloomfield wrote about growing up in Chicago in the early 60s. It was a time when there was a lot of young white kids from different backgrounds who became enamored of the whole blues scene there. They all gravitated to musicians like Muddy Waters and Howlin Wolf and tried to learn from them. It was a complicated thing because it was not their culture but it was a world they greatly admired. All these guys, Paul Butterfield, Charlie Musselwhite all ended up with long careers in music. I think there's a great story in the racial dynamics, appropration of culture, and admiration of culture that I've been thinking about for a long time and haven't quite figured out.
Ron Yerxa: For a while there was always the thought of doing Ralph Ellison's The Invisible Man which I guess is being made. No one told us the estate was finally selling the rights. It would be great to make a film where people have a collective common interest in the vein of "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" or King Vidor films, great sense of community where they just come together in some way, maybe it's a comedy where the absurdity and hypocrisy of the controlling powers are overthrown by people refusing to accept that kind of world.
Moderator: Is this a script or wishful thinking?
Ron Yerxa: It's a dream I have every night while watching MSN or NBC. (audience laughs)
Moderator: Any final words?
Ron Yerxa: We really do appreciate an audience that's attentive and appreciative. There is such a debate going on as to whether films will continue to be seen as a community experience or more privately in people's living rooms. Thank you very much for that.
Albert Berger: What we've always tried to do is find material we felt connected to. At the end of the day that's the only thing we cared about. I hope we can continue to be able to make the kind of movies we feel connected to. That's what we've done and that's what we're trying to keep doing.
Ron Yerxa: Movies we want to watch ourselves.
Juliet, Naked opened August 24 and is currently in several theaters.
Pick of the Litter: Q&A with Writer/Director Don Hardy, Jr.
By Ron Gordner, DC Film Society Member
A Q&A with directors and writers Don Hardy Jr. and Dana Nachman was held at the AFI Silver in June 2018 during AFI DOCS. The film follows the fate of five new Labrador puppies who have the chance to become Guide Dogs for the Blind, from their birth until two years later as they are trained and evaluated if they can make the cut. We meet many humans who care for and train the dogs, ones who are eagerly waiting for a guide dog, and although this is a documentary, some moments are intense as you secretly cheer for your favorites to make the cut. The puppies are: Patriot, Phil, Potomac, Primrose, and Poppet.
Moderator: Wow, I'm sure some of you are a little teary-eyed also and inspired. Can you talk a little more about your personal connection to making the film and inspiratons?
Don Hardy Jr: We worked in TV news in San Francisco where Guide Dogs for the Blind is based and this was one of our projects on the back burner. We were talking at a festival about maybe following a litter of puppies and handlers. When we left doing news and start doing docs we called agencies that would let us have lots of access. Guide Dogs for the Blind really trusted us to film everything.
Moderator: There were some difficult moments in the film, like when Patty as a handler was having problems. How did you navigate those issues or treat them?
Don Hardy Jr: Yes, we didn't know that could happen to the handlers and with Patty it just came out of the weeds that they changed handlers for the puppy Phil. It was awkward for everyone, and we didn't really understand their policies, but we stuck with the stories about the dogs and their journeys. Tough decisions sometimes have to be made about the humans and the dogs, to make the best dog.
Moderator: You were lucky with this litter that there were different outcomes. You could have had a litter where none of the puppies made the cut. How did that work?
Don Hardy Jr: That would have been a tough conversation with our producers and distributors if none of the pups made it.
Moderator: Were there ever any fears that your filmmaking would interfere with the success of any of the dogs during the training?
Don Hardy Jr: We were nervous about that at first. The organization felt we were just another obstruction. Yes, most dogs don't have a camera crew following them but they treated us as just there. We said we will never stop and start filming but will capture it as it is happening. We don't want retakes, just keep going. It was difficult at times during the quick training parts with a camera on my shoulder but we came up with another rigged camera setup that seemed to work. We didn't want to shoot at a human level but down at the level of the dogs.
Audience Question: How do the breeder dogs live their lives?
Don Hardy Jr: When a dog is chosen to be a breeder, they go live with a breeder custodian. Primrose lives with a person and within 50 miles of the facility. When she is in heat, she is taken in and bred. Then she lives with that family for the rest of her life.
Audience Question: What are the shots you missed or didin't capture that you would like in the film?
Don Hardy Jr: I don't feel I missed much as a camera man. We did 120 days of shooting, four hours a day, so we had a lot to chose from, over 500 hours. I wish the Patty scene could have been handled differently. We had the roller coaster feeling you do watching the film, we had making it. We didn't know what was going to happen next. The day Phil failed some of his tests, I called Dana and said how could he have failed? Keep shooting and edit later. We had 10 weeks of training mapped out at the beginning but that all changed and one of our crew said after a while it's just dogs walking, but you get a human connection quickly with the dogs.
Audience Question: Is there any sense by the dogs that they are compensating for a loss in their human?
Don Hardy Jr: Great question. Let's ask audience member who has a guide dog that.
Audience member with guide dog: Sometimes they keep you guessing what they are doing, but most of the time they are very reliable and consider your safety. They sometimes moan and groan as I do, and if you are in a college class they need to minimize their noise or knocking over things, etc. but most of the time they are wonderful companions. They learn they can get away with some things.
Audience Question: What is the future of the film or marketing plan?
Don Hardy Jr: It is going into theatres, New York on August 31st, then the Bay area, and then broader. I think September 14th here at Landmark in DC.
Audience Question: It is staggering the amount of time and training going into each guide dog. Has anyone monetized the cost of training the dogs outside of the volunteer work?
Don Hardy Jr: Good question. Remember this is for the life of the dog and that the organization runs entirely off donations. Please support them. I have heard about $100,000 per dog for training until they become a successful guide dog. This includes food, vet bills, etc.
Audience Question: It seems the dogs walk very fast in training.
Don Hardy Jr: Yes they are trained to go fast and then they dial them down to the pace of the human partner. Have some of the audience members had dogs that didn't work out?
Audience member with guide dog: I only had one dog that didn't work and sometimes would go into the street at not good times.
Audience Question: How did you choose the people to follow who needed guide dogs for the final film?
Don Hardy Jr: Once we got into deep training, and Patriot opted out, we knew it would be two people and we had to get people willing to be on camera and we wanted at least one person if possible who was getting their first guide dog. So Ron and Janet were the choices and their dogs. Someone asked if we used the Hoop Dreams approach of many different litters of puppies before choosing these pups. No, we had one litter and stuck with them.
Audience Question: I was surprised they chose the high school kid as a handler, why was that do you think?
Don Hardy Jr: There are a scarcity of volunteers, since it is a heavy duty gig, and Nick went through all the training and his mother and sister had successfully been handlers. They thought he could rely on them also for support, but the sister went away to college and the mother got a new job and Nick was kind of thrown into the deep end with a difficult dog like Patriot. We felt bad for him. It was the right decision to change handlers.
Audience Question: Will the film be on DVD?
Don Hardy Jr: I believe so after it hits theatres and in other medias. Active View is a program that allows descriptive text, sign language and audio for different viewers with varied disabilities. It is an app on the phones also.
Audience Question: How was it working with the families?
Don Hardy Jr: Not too bad. Families were in LA, the Bay area, near Seattle.
Moderator: What do you want people to take away from the movie?
Don Hardy Jr: That has changed but I would say if you see guide dogs and people walking down the street, realize all the work and training that went behind the guide dog and that this is a very special animal and a very special partnership. Don't go up and pet the animals, but you can say, "Have a nice day." I hope we can have more nice things done for others and share that like we did with the audience today in Washington DC.
Pick of the Litter is scheduled to open in DC September 14.
The Miseducation of Cameron Post: Q&A with Director Desiree Akhavan and Others
By Annette Graham, DC Film Society Member
An advance screening of The Miseducation of Cameron Post (Desiree Akhavan, 2018) was shown August 6 at Landmark's E Street Cinema. Present for conversation after the film were film director Desiree Akhavan, lead actress Chloë Grace Moretz, and conversion therapy survivor and co-founder of the Born Perfect campaign Mathew Shurka. The moderator was Caitlin Moore, digital editor of pop culture for the Washington Post. The film is based on the novel by Emily Danforth and is set in the early 1990s. Chloë Grace Moretz stars as a gay teenager forced to undergo gay conversion therapy by her guardian aunt and uncle. The Miseducation of Cameron Post won the 2018 US Grand Jury Prize at the Sundance Film Festival. This Q&A has been edited and condensed.
Caitlin Moore: Mathew, you were a consultant on the film. How true is this to your experience with therapy?
Mathew Shurka: I would say very true. I'm one of five survivors that Chloë and Desiree met with just before they filmed in upstate New York. I wanted to make sure that it was clear what conversion therapy is and what's its current state, questions that came up as the movie was brought to the public. I was in conversion therapy for five years, I was in treatment in four different states--New York, New Jersey, Virginia, and California. I experienced one-on-one therapy, group therapy and went to conversion therapy camp in Charlottesville, Virginia. There are a few themes in the film that resonate so true, such as the use of the acronym SSA (Same Sex Attraction). Right from the beginning I was told I'm not a homosexual, I have a condition called SSA and we're going to work on that. So that was true to my story and the hundreds of survivors I met during that time. This whole idea that you're not attracted to the same sex, you're just after the desires of what you wish you had in yourself. Like that perfect pitch. So for me, it was broad shoulders or something ridiculous. (audience laughs) The first time I saw that movie the whole way through, I was just stunned how much it resonated with me.
Caitlin Moore: Desiree, the movie won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance. It's been a few months since and it's still not in wide release. Can you speak to the politics of that?
Desiree Akhavan: Yes. Americans are afraid of female sexuality. (audience laughs) I don't what else to say--I gave them Chloë Moretz. We won this award and usually the winner of that award goes on to win Oscars and get a wide platform release. But it is a bit of a struggle to remain in the cinemas. We opened in New York last week and it was incredible because we had the highest per theater average in the box off of any other "special interest" film. Thank you to the people who came to the cinema. We are opening in LA this week and in a handful of other cities. If the demand is there and people show up it will continue to live. So that's why it's very important that people share with their friends and show passion. It's a film that could very much live off the passion of its audience, which is the coolest part of living with the internet.
Caitlin Moore: Chloë, you've spoke openly about having two gay brothers. Does having that sort of family situation speak to the kind of movies you pursue?
Chloë Grace Moretz: Growing up with two gay brothers, it was nonnegotiable. I always loved my brothers and loved them after they came out to me. If anything I had a closer relationship with them after they came out to me because of the honesty there. And it changed the entire dynamic of my family. And this was an opportunity to take my art that I love so much doing, and partner that with being as outspoken as I am, in being an advocate, and making this the highest form of rebellion against the administration that we could do. We didn't even realize until halfway through making the film, because we started making it under the Obama administration, and halfway through he was elected our president--he who should not be named. (audience laughs) And in that moment it became the most important film that we could be making and was the highest form of rebellion. Our vice president is not just an ally of conversion therapy, he's an advocate. He helped pass a bill that took money away from HIV funding and AIDS research and revert that to conversion therapy.
Audience Question: I imagined conversion therapy being far more abusive, aggressive and intense. Some scenes seemed rather pleasant, people go on hikes. I thought it would be more contained and restrictive.
Desiree Akhavan: I'll just answer the film making aspects. I've always wanted to make films that depicted everyday abuse, abuses I had known which was at the hands of people who loved me the most and had the best intentions for me. I didn't know how to doubt the bullshittery that was happening around me growing up because it was done with love and without physical violence. It wasn't like that episode of Full House where Stephanie's friend gets pushed down the stairs by his drunk dad. We see in films and television such a black and white view of abuse and I'm so much more interested in the gray and the intricacies of the push and pull. It was my main objective as a director to not depict this like an after-school special and for it not to feel it's so far away from you that you can't consider something abusive unless you got electric shock therapy.
Mathew Shurka: You hear stories of electric shock therapy, aversion therapy, the Clockwork Orange style of conversion therapy. Yes, that has existed. The last case of electric shock therapy and the most recent was between 10 and 15 years ago, that I know of. I know many individuals that have been through electric shock therapy which by the way is a very legal kind of therapy that is used for depression and it's still legal nationwide. But for any physician or psychotherapist to claim that it is a process to cure your sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression is ludicrous. This is really accurate because as religious institutions or your parents, there is a sort of "I love you, let me help you, let me take care of you" approach to conversion therapy. I went into conversion therapy at age 16. No one dragged me to a therapist, no one held a gun to my head, so to speak. But I loved and trusted my father. My father never kicked me out of the house and he said "I'm going to do everything to help you," which was to become straight. And then my first experience in therapy was conversion therapy. And I was told how horrible my life would be if I fully came out. So as a teenager, I went into giving it my all. And the insanity that I was driven to, and the suicide rate is so high because of that insanity. It's almost like it's not obvious enough, because it's not physical abuse that this is an epidemic happening in our country. We know that 700,000 people in the US have been to conversion therapy. I don't want to diminish the people who have received physical abuse, whether by a parent, a guardian or by a licensed professional. I think that's what so hard to tackle on this issue legislatively. And it's important for survivors to share their story, for them to have the courage to share what they went through.
Audience Question: How many states have outlawed this?
Mathew Shurka: Fourteen states have passed legislation that make it illegal for a licensed professional to treat a minor, anyone under the age of 18. So it's legal nationalwide for adults.
Audience Question: How did this mold you into the person you are today? How did you change?
Mathew Shurka: I began conversion therapy in 2004. My parents were very naive, I came from a conservative town on Long Island. I had sweetly naive parents who still work in New York City. My first conversion therapist still runs his office in Manhattan. We are in a totally different world today from 2004--the amount of knowledge about conversion therapy, the studies that are out there, the stories of other survivors. I contemplated suicide for two or three years. Who would I be? I probably would have finished college and not ended up in the emergency room consistently. I don't where I would be. I have my passions--architecture, urban planning and real estate. I lead, with incredible lawyers, the Born Perfect campaign, and we pass legislation. I'm proud of my work and don't have regrets. I'm very grateful and feel very lucky to be where I am today.
Audience Question: Could you talk about the casting of two of the other actors Sasha Lane and Forrest Goodluck?
Desiree Akhavan: Sasha Lane plays Jane and Forrest Goodluck plays Adam. For Adam we started first while we were looking for Cameron. We wanted a Native American actor to play a Native American character, but that was tricky. We were looking for native actors and were not able to find that many who were willing to play openly guy. We had a lot of rejections, not even offers for auditions. I couldn't even read some actors because they found out the subject matter. And then Forrest came in and he was so perfectly suited for that character. It was a no-brainer. But we hadn't cast Chloë yet, and Chloë ended up being the first person we officially brought on board. Once we brought her on, I knew we could get someone to balance against her. I definitely knew I wanted more people of color in the film. So I was excited that Forrest was there. But Sasha was someone who so embodied someone you couldn't possibly change, someone who couldn't change even if she tried, someone who is very much herself and doing her own thing. When I watched American Honey, midway through watching it I texted Jessica Daniels, the casting director, and said, "Make the offer, don't even have her read." So we made the offer and we were very grateful that she said yes. It's a beautiful film, but she's the driving force in it [American Honey], she's the discovery in that movie and I knew I wanted her to be playing against what Chloë brought to the table. And their two personas would battle each other out in a really baffling way. And Adam would be the male counterpart to that.
Audience Question: How did you relate to the scene where you are under the desk calling your aunt on the telephone?
Chloë Grace Moretz: It really highlighted for me the idea of miseducation and Desiree does a fine job not telling you what to think of either side. I as Cameron, at that moment, don't hate my aunt. I understand where she's coming from. I decide to fix myself. All I want to do is go home. It's very simple; it's not her fault, she is reacting purely out of fear of the unknown; she had no idea. It was a really hard thing to play. I've never faced that kind of obstacle. That was the first thing I asked Mathew, when we met, "Did you give in when faced with your own realization that there really was no getting out, how much did you give in and was it wholehearted?" It was unanimous for other survivors, they tried very hard. It wasn't just because the people they loved were saying this to them it was also the manipulation and doubt that was planted in their minds. I wanted to depict that naturally and it was very difficult. I think it was a fine job of showing the miseducation and the misguided interpretation of the Bible and how it can weaponize relations very impressively.
Audience Question: What was the process like for you in adapting stories and personifying them so accurately? And after doing so, ultimately, are you okay?
Desiree Akhavan: Am I okay? I'm good (audience laughs). I co-wrote the adaptation. The book is by Emily Danforth and it describes all these characters beautifully. Cecilia Ferguelli is my producing partner and we co-wrote this together. We did a pass of the script from each character's point of view which means you look from page one to the last page and think, "Okay, I'm Helen, the girl who sings karaoke, so where am I from the moment she enters the script to the moment the script is done. What is her journey? I'm Adam, where am I going? What do I see? As an audience member what is my relationship to that character and what do I learn and when do I learn it." We wanted to make sure we represented people we were finding in our research. I think that was clear with Rick and Lydia; we based them on people we found who were vocal advocates for gay conversion therapy. Erin is really well described in the book. That sex scene is in the book and it's one of my favorite moments. It's so surprising, so out of character and it really changes your entire opinion of her. That's the moment I wanted from each character--you're not quite the stereotype I thought you were. And I wanted that level of depth with each person. Of course I'm okay--this is my passion, I love this, telling stories and attacking it like a puzzle piece and getting at it from different angles. You exercise your own emotions through it; it's really empowering to make these stories. I'm Helen and Erin combined. And every woman I've ever loved is Cameron. You put the dorkiest bits of yourself into these women. I sang choir and glee club obsessively. And I have a very low voice and wish I was a pure soprano, I really do. (audience laughs).
Audience Question: The cinematography is impressive and the closeups were part of story, going into psyche of people. What can you tell us about the cinematographer?
Desiree Akhavan: This is my second film. The first film [Appropriate Behavior, 2014] I star in and I didn't have the luxury of perspective. What I learned in making this film was that as a director, you don't actually make the film. You let everyone else do a really good job and then you take all the credit. (audience laughs) That work is a testament to Chloë and and Ashley Connor, the cinematographer. Chloë is very good at communicating without words. Her face reads. Sasha is also this way but very different. As a director you figure out how each person ticks, not just your actors but also your heads of department. Ashley is a very physical cinematographer. She gets in there, she operates everything herself and she's a poet. Chloë too, she can carry a closeup very well. Once we got into the hang of shooting, it dictated what my shots became. And we kind of threw out our expectations before the shoot--this is much more compelling in a closeup. That's the fun thing about shooting on set. Every hour you are taking the temperature, what are the tools at my disposal, I have this actor who says it all with their eyes, this cinematograhper, her handheld is like butter. Let's marry those two and see what we can play with.
Audience Question. How do people survive after getting out of conversion therapy?
Desiree Akhavan: In the bullshit world of my head, this has always been an origin story for homeless gay teens. It is not a coincidence that the vast majority of homeless teens are LGBT. That was interesting to me. How did they get there?
Mathew Shurka: I live in New York City and 40% of the youth that are homeless are LGBTQ. That's not an accident; they come from all sorts of economic backgrounds. The film does a clear depiction of how that can happen to any teenager. I love the ending of this film because there's this hope. The three characters are so clear who they are. When I left conversion therapy I was doubtful of who I was for years. I always thought maybe I made a mistake, maybe my therapist was right, maybe my parents were right. Then when I came out of that closet reluctantly, I couldn't go back. It lingered for so so long. I know conversion therapy so well, because I was in it for five years. When I saw the film, I could relate to Chloë's character now, because even though you don't know where she is going on the horizon, she is clear who she is. That was really touching for me. The reality is what do we want for those survivors. We want a therapist to be affirming. A therapist is never supposed to dictate or advocate whether you're going to be gay or straight, or trans or queer or whatever. It's the patient who is in self-discovery and the therapist is there to affirm their journey and support them in whatever they need. That's what real therapy is about. The whole point is to make sure that licensed professionals don't fraudently claim otherwise. That's what this film is about for me and the movement.
Caitlin Moore: Tell the audience how they can learn more about your campaign.
Mathew Shurka: The campaign I created within the National Center for Lesbian Rights is called the Born Perfect Campaign. You can be part of the movement and join our mailing list at Born Perfect: The Campaign to End Conversion Therapy. Fourteen states with both Republican and Democrat governors have passed this legislation.
Desiree Akhavan: I always say this to audiences, that paying for a movie ticket is like casting a ballot. You are saying that you believe that these types of films should be made by these types of people, so I ask you to please encourage people around you to vote. And help root out some of the bullshittery in the movie industry.
The Miseducation of Cameron Post opened at Landmark's E Street Cinema on August 17 and is currently in its third week.
Calendar of Events
FILMS
American Film Institute Silver Theater
The Latin American Film Festival (September 13-October 3) is celebrating its 29th year. The Opening Night film is Birds of Paradise from Colombia. More than forty films from Latin American countries plus Spain and Portugal will be shown, many of which are US premieres and some of which will have special guests participating in Q&As after theit films. See the website for schedule, tickets and passes.
"Ingmar Bergman Centennial" (July 10-September 13). Titles in September are the complete version of Fanny and Alexander shown in two parts; After the Rehearsal, In the Presence of a Clown and Saraband. More at the National Gallery of Art.
"Canada Now" (July 16-September 3) is a festival of new films from Canada. The last film in the series is Unarmed Verses (2017), winner of the Best Canadian Feature Documentary Award at Hot Docs 2017.
"AFI Life Achievement Award: George Clooney" (July 14–September 12). George Clooney, director, producer, writer, and actor, received the 46th AFI Life Achievement Award. Film titles in September are Michael Clayton and The Fantastic Mr. Fox.
"Stanley Kubrick: A Retrospective" (July 14-September 12). Titles in September are The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut, Full Metal Jacket and the documentary Room 237 (Rodney Ascher, 2012).
"William Holden Retrospective" (July 13-September 12). September titles are Picnic, The Wild Bunch, Network and Fedora.
"George Romero Remembered" (July 14–September 8). A series of films by George Romero, who died last year, concludes in September with Day of the Dead (1985) and Land of the Dead (2005).
"Leonard Bernstein at 100" (August 31-September 6). Titles are On the Waterfront, On the Town and West Side Story.
"Summer of Song" concludes in September with Grease sing-along.
Freer Gallery of Art
A series of Japanese classic films continues at the Freer. On September 5 at 2:00pm is An Autumn Afternoon (Yasujiro Ozu, 1962).
The DC Turkish Film Festival (September 13-16) includes Turkey's Oscar pick and the winner of the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance. On September 13 at 7:00pm is Sideway (Tayfun Pirselimogu, 2017); on September 14 at 1:00pm is Grain (Semih Kaplanoglu, 2017); on September 14 at 4:00pm is Big Big World (Reyha Erden, 2016); on September 14 at 7:00pm is Butterflies (Tolga Karacelik, 2018); on September 16 at 1:00pm is The Wild Pear Tree (Nuri Bilge Ceylan, 2018) with the filmmaker present to discuss the film; and on September 16 at 6:00pm is Ayla: The Daughter of War (Sitki Can Ulkay, 2017).
"Views of Taiwan" (September 21-30) presents four new films and one restored classic. On September 21 at 7:00pm is The Great Buddha+ (Huang Hsin-yao, 2017); on September 23 at 2:00pm is Legend of the Mountain (King Hu, 1979); on September 25 at 7:00pm is On Happiness Road (Sung Hsin-yin, 2017); on September 28 at 7:00pm is Love Education (Sylvia Chang, 2017); and on September 30 at 2:00pm is the documentary Traces of the Brush: The Heartprint of Fu Shen (Eros Zhao, 2018) with the filmmaker present to discuss the film.
On September 15 at 2:00pm is a lecture about the city of Ctesiphon and its Throme of Khosrow palace, one of the wonders of the ancient world. A documentary Taq Kasra: Wonder of Architecture (Pejman Akbarzadeh) is also shown.
National Gallery of Art
"Jacques Becker: Poet of the Commonplace" (September 8-23) is a series of eight films, some of which have been restored and theatrically re-released. On September 8 at 2:30pm is Falbalas (1945); on September 9 at 4:00pm is Antoine et Antoinette (1947); on September 15 at 2:00pm is Edouard et Caroline (1951); on September 15 at 4:00pm is Ali Baba (1954); on September 16 at 4:00pm is Rendez-vous de juillet (1949); on September 22 at 2:00pm is Casque d'or (1952); on September 22 at 4:00pm is Touchez pas au grisbi (1954); and on September 23 at 4:00pm is Le Trou (1960).
Special events at the Gallery during September include a "Cine-Concert" with films of Peter Hutton's short films with music performed by Chris Brokaw and Matthew Nolan on September 1 at 2:30pm. On September 2 at 2:00pm is a lecture "Stanley Kubrick: The Irony of Feeling" with Robert Kolker who will sign books following the lecture. On September 29 at 2:30pm is the Washington premiere of In the Intense Now (Joao Moreira Salles, 2017) with an introduction by Michael Kraus; and on September 30 at 4:00pm is Our People Will Be Heard (2017) with filmmaker Alanis Obomsawin in person.
The "Bergman Centennial" (July 1-September 3) reviews the work of Swedish director Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007). More films can be seen at the American Film Institute's Silver Theater and documentaries are shown at the Embassy of Sweden. On September 2 at 4:30pm is This Can't Happen Here (1950) with an introduction by Jan Holmberg; and on September 3 at 1:00pm is Brink of Life (1957).
"From Vault to Screen-UCLA Festival of Preservation" (August 11-September 3) is a collection of films from Hollywood's history. On September 3 at 3:30pm is Sons of the Desert (William A. Seiter, 1934) preceded by Berth Marks (Lewis Foster, 1929).
National Portrait Gallery
On September 10 at 7:00pm is 1968 about the tumult and transformations that occurred that year--war (Vietnam); civil rights demonstrations; assassinations (Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy); strife between protesters and police (Chicago Democratic National Convention); and counter-culture uprisings. Q&A to follow.
Smithsonian American Art Museum
Accompanying the new exhibit "Between Worlds: The Art of Bill Traylor" is the world premiere of the documentary Bill Traylor: Chasing Ghosts (2018) on September 30 at 3:00pm. Filmmaker Jeffrey Wolf will be present for Q&A.
Washington Jewish Community Center
The JCC will be renovating its space and programs are shown at other locations. On September 5 at 7:30pm is the documentary The Oslo Diaries (Mor Loushy and Daniel Sivan, 2018) about secret talks between Palestinians and Isaelis in 1992. The directors and producers will be present for Q&A. Location: Landmark's E Street Cinema.
Goethe Institute
On September 28 at 6:30pm is Tour de Force (Christian Züber, 2013-2014), a bicycling road movie.
Strathmore
On September 29 at 8:00pm is On the Waterfront (Elia Kazan, 1954) with Leonard Bernstein's score performed by the National Philharmonic.
French Embassy
"Paris: A Hundred Villages" (September 11-October 23) is a four-part film series focusing on one of the many Parisian localities. On September 11 at 7:00pm is Paris Prestige (Hamé and Ekoué, 2016) set in immigrant neighborhoods; and on September 25 at 7:00pm is Breathless (Jean-Luc Godard, 1960) starring Jean-Paul Belmondo and Jean Seberg. Two more in October.
The Japan Information and Culture Center
On September 19 at 6:30pm is The Sun in the Last Days of the Shogunate (Yuzo Kawashima, 1957), a comedy set in the Edo period and ranked #5 best Japanese film of all time by Kinema Junpo.
The Textile Museum at GWU
On September 13 at noon is Traveling the Silk Road (2017), a documentary about Uzbekistan's traditions.
On September 13 at 5:30pm is Sevan the Craftsman: Breathing Istanbul's Magic into Jewels (Ümran Safter, 2017), a documentary about the jewelry artist Sevan Bicakci.
On September 20 at 5:30pm is Daughters of Anatolia (Halé Sofia Schatz, 2015), a documentary about nomadic goat herders.
Bethesda Row
"Cinema Arts Bethesda" is a monthly Sunday morning film discussion series. On September 16 at 10:00am is In the Fade (Fatih Akin, 2017), starring Diane Kruger as a woman seeking justice after her husband and son are killed in a terrorist attack. Breakfast is at 9:30am, the film is at 10:00am and discussion follows, moderated by Adam Spector, host of the DC Film Society's Cinema Lounge and author of the column "Adam's Rib." A season pass is available.
The Avalon
On September 5 at 8:00pm is 93Queen (Paula Eiselt, 2018), a documentary about Hasidic women who create an all-female volunteer ambulance corps in NYC. The "programmer's choice" pick for September.
On September 18 at 8:00pm is this month's "French Cinematheque" film Return of the Hero (Laurent Tirard, 2018), set in France of 1809.
On September 26 at 8:00pm is the documentary Circus Without Borders (Susan Gray, 2016) about two circuses from northern Canada and Guinea. Acrobat Yamoussa Bangoura and filmmaker Susan Gray will be present for Q&A. Part of the "Films in Focus" series.
There is no "Reel Israel" film this month.
Italian Cultural Institute
On September 13 at 6:00pm is Friends by Chance (Francesco Bruni, 2017), a dramedy about a young slacker and an elderly man suffering from Alzheimer's.
On September 26 at 6:00pm is Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow (Vittorio De Sica, 1963) starring Sophia Loren and Marcello Mastroianni in three different stories. Winner of an Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film.
New York University Abramson Family Auditorium
On September 17 at 7:00pm is the documentary Strange Occurrences in a Small Irish Village (Aoife Kelleher, 2016).
Library of Congress
The Mary Pickford Theater
at the Library of Congress continues its series of films showcasing the Library's collection and including newly preserved films. On September 20 at 7:00pm is The Great Garrick (James Whale, 1937) a comedy starring Olivia DeHavilland and Brian Aherne as the famed British actor David Garrick.
"Capital Classics" at Landmark's West End Cinema
Classic films are shown at the West End Cinema on Wednesdays at 1:30pm, 4:30pm and 7:30pm. On September 5 is Victor Victoria (Blake Edwards, 1982) starring Julie Andrews and James Garner; on September 12 is The Right Stuff (Philip Kaufman, 1983) [Note: times for this film only are 2:00pm and 7:00pm; on September 19 is Dark Victory (Edmund Goulding, 1939) starring Bette Davis; and on September 26 is 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968).
International Spy Museum
On September 11 at 6:30pm is Mile 22 (Peter Berg, 2018) with the film's screenwriter and novelist Lea Carpenter present for Q&A.
Atlas Performing Arts Film Series
On September 17 at 7:00pm is Break the Chain (Laura Swanson and Kirk Mason, 2016), a documentary about human trafficking in the U.S. Co-director Laura Swanson will participate in a panel discussion after the screening.
Hill Center
"Hitchcock in a Beret" is a series of three film programs--two by Alfred Hitchcock and one by a French director. On September 7 at 7:00pm is Diabolique (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1954); on September 14 at 7:00pm is the short film Bon Voyage (Alfred Hitchcock, 1944) and the TV film Into Thin Air (Alfred Hitchcock, 1955). On September 21 at 7:00pm is The Trouble With Harry (Alfred Hitchcock, 1955).
Tom Zaniello will host the films and discuss the influence of Hitchcock on French film and vice versa.
Reel Affirmations XTra
On September 28 at 7:00pm is Man Made (T Cooper, 2018), documentary about trans men who prepare for and take part in an all-transgender bodybuilding competition.
FILM FESTIVALS
