The Cinema Lounge

And So It Goes: Q&A with Director Rob Reiner

By Annette Graham, DC Film Society Member

On June 17 an advance screening of And So It Goes (Rob Reiner, 2014) was shown at AMC's Georgetown Theater. A romantic comedy, the film stars Michael Douglas and Diane Keaton. Rob Reiner was present to answer audience questions after the screening and Jen Chaney from the Washington Post was moderator.

Jen Chaney: Where did you get the idea for this movie?
Rob Reiner: When we did the press tour for The Bucket List every one of the journalists would ask us, "What's on your bucket list?" Whenever they asked Jack Nicholson that question, he would always say (imitating Nicholson's voice), "One more great romance." And I thought, that's a good idea for a movie, so we decided to see if we could develop that. We called up Mark Andrus, who wrote As Good As It Gets. He came in and we talked about how we would structure this, about a late in life romance and this is what came out of it. It was basically an extension of the same theme from Bucket List which is You Live. Live until you don't have any time left. It happened to me when I turned 60. It hit me. I am now a very very very young old person. (everyone laughs). You realize if you are lucky enough to live to 90 you've gone through two-thirds of your life. I started thinking about all those things you hear when you're young. You intellectualize them but you don't really internalize the idea of how precious life is and you only have this one time. And what you want to do with your life and that's the kind of thing we explored in Bucket List but then this is an adjunct to that which is if you're lucky enough to find another love in your life, at a certain point, it's scary because you know what's at stake, you know how difficult the loss of somebody is, but you want to embrace it, you want to go with it. We are living longer now, people are sometimes having two or three careers and doing different things with their lives. It's all about grabbing the time that you have on this planet and making the most of it.

Jen Chaney: Once you had the screenplay in place, did you know you wanted Michael Douglas and Diane Keaton right away?
Rob Reiner: I've worked with Michael before, I did The American President with him, and I love Michael, we've known each other for a long long time, we're good friends and we did a movie together when we were in our early 20s. We share similar situations where we both have fathers who achieved at a very high level, so it's something we've gone through together. And so I wanted to work with him. He had never worked with Diane Keaton; I had never worked with her. And he was dying to work with her and she was dying to work with him. It's incredible when you think about these two Academy Award winning great actors; they're icons, that they never actually worked with each other. You don't know when you do a romantic comedy is there going to be chemistry or not, you hope there will be. There was, we were really lucky. They loved working with each other. I read that Diane has a list of people that she wants to kiss--actors--and I think Michael was on that list. So she got to check that off. So it worked out good for her.

Jen Chaney: Speaking of Diane Keaton, she released a book recently and talked a little bit about working on this film. She said that in the scene you shot where she is singing in the new club, just before the cameras rolled, you said, "Cry." Is that true?
Rob Reiner: No. The thing about Diane is that she is such an instinctive actress. I love working with her because she works the same way I do. She told me before we started shooting, "I don't act. I'm just what I am. Whatever I am that's it, that's what you get." And she was right. There was no real division between how she is off screen and on screen. It's the same person. But it works and it's great because you get the sense of a real person; you get to know who she is. She improvises, she'll take the dialogue and twist it around and make it comfortable for herself and I've done the same kind of thing in the work I've done. No, I would never tell her she had to cry. If it came and it came naturally, great. And it did in the scene. But I would never say "You have to cry."
Jen Chaney: I don't think you meant that you were yelling at her. Rob Reiner: No, I wasn't yelling at her. But there was one great moment in the scene when she was auditioning to get the job in the club. And that's Frankie Valli there as owner of the club. When we shot the scene, he and Michael were way in the back, in the dark, she was on camera, they weren't on camera, they were off. When she's into a scene, she just gets right into it, she doesn't think about what's going on around her. And I was sitting there, I'm supposed to be her accompanist. But just before we roll the camera for the first take I said, "Diane how do you feel? Are you a little nervous that you are going to have to sing in front of Frankie Valli?" And she said, "Frankie Valli? Where's Frankie Valli?" She had no idea he was in the movie. And I said, "That's him, right back there." And she said, "That's him? Oh my God. How can you say that to me? Making me so nervous." And I said, "Don't feel bad, I'm a little nervous too. I have to play piano in front of Liberace." (everyone laughs). She did great.

Jen Chaney: Speaking of Frankie Valli, how did that come about?
Rob Reiner: I just got a call from his agent, who said, "Frankie would love to do a part in a movie. I hear you are doing this movie. Is there anything in this for him?" And I said, "Yes, there is a little part for a club owner." So he said he would do it.

Jen Chaney: Another interesting casting decision you made was to cast yourself.
Rob Reiner: That decision was borne out of necessity in that I had a very small budget and I had to find an actor who would work for scale. I looked around and found myself. (everyone laughs). I love the opportunity to play a part where I wear a toupee that's undetectable. I never had that opportunity.

Jen Chaney: Is it hard to direct and act in a movie at the same time?
Rob Reiner: It is. I don't really like it so much because your focus gets split and it's kind of confusing. On days when I have to act I'm in the makeup trailer and putting that dead cat on my head. And meanwhile I should be out there setting up a shot and working out what I'm supposed to be doing. So it's a little bit disconcerting. I would much rather either just direct or act in somebody's else's movie like in Wolf of Wall Street where Marty Scorsese, a brilliant director, has all the responsibility and all the headaches.

Jen Chaney: The film was shot in Connecticut. Is Little Shangri-la a real place?
Rob Reiner: It's a real place on Long Island Sound. We made the name up. "Little" because of his [Michael Douglas] name. It was actually a duplex and we turned it into a fourplex. And it was right there on the water.
Jen Chaney: Were people living there?
Rob Reiner: No. It was for rent. And we said to the guy who owned the building. "We'll rent this from you for the month that we're going to shoot." We built those staircases. He said, "Leave them there." So we left them.

Jen Chaney: You have made several films in which a man and woman fall for each other after just liking each other initially.
Rob Reiner: I've done a few of these romantic comedies. I did one called Flipped about two 12 year olds' first love, and then The Sure Thing is about college kids. When Harry Met Sally they are young adults and in this one they are older adults. Princess Bride isn't a romantic comedy. That's an oddball film. But the pure romantic comedies basically are the same story. It's in different stages of life. It's essentially what I believe about men and women which is that women are more evolved. They are far beyond the men. They're more mature when they're young they're more mature when middle-aged. They're always more mature and they understand what they want, they have a real connection with their emotions which is understandable. They have living beings growing inside them, you can't help but be connected to other human beings. Men on the other hand have to learn that. We don't have that instinct to do that. So the men basically run around like idiots trying to figure out what should be important and the women know what's important. They're right there and they're right there in front of the men and it takes a while for the men to get it. Whether it's Flipped or this one, it's always the woman who there and saying, "Listen you idiot, what you want is right here." And the men finally go, "Yeah that's right." (everyone claps) Women applaud but the fact is that it's true. We are great guys but we really don't understand those things. As we get older we appreciate it more and more. I have three kids and I'm the big kid. The wife helps raise you essentially. And if you're smart you listen to her, you will get raised and you'll be a lot more evolved person. And I think that's what happens in life. Anyway, that's my take on it. All the men and women in all these movies are the same. It's just a different variation on each of them.

Jen Chaney: You've worked with child actors. Can you tell us about the girl who played Michael Douglas' granddaughter?
Rob Reiner: She was great. She was a natural. Her name is Sterling Jerins. She played Brad Pitt's daughter in World War Z. And she's done a lot of things already. She's a really talented little actress. She's somebody you don't have to do much with. She came full blown. I've had to work with young actors who weren't as experienced and didn't have those kind of chops, as they say. In Stand By Me there were kids that had not acted that much. River Phoenix had acted a little bit and Corey Feldman but the other two not so much. And I had to work with them. I basically gave them acting classes. We spent a couple of weeks just teaching them about acting and doing improvisational exercises with them. and eventually by the time we were ready to shoot they had become a real cohesive unit. I like working with kids because they have great instincts. They don't have any preconceived ideas about what's right and what's wrong. They just are. So it's essentially just teaching them a little craft to be able to harness the things that they do instinctively. They haven't gotten bad habits yet.

Jen Chaney: There have been some articles in the past year saying that romantic comedies are harder to get made now. Is that true?
Rob Reiner: It is true. Studios right now are only making three kinds of movies. They're making the big tentpole, blockbuster, superhero types, they're making animated films, and they make R-rated raunchy comedies. So any kind of adult themed--either drama or romantic comedy, they don't make them, they just don't bother with them. So if you're going to get them made, you have to find independent financing which is difficult to find. And they're also very hard films to make because to balance romance and comedy and have something dramatic in it is not an easy thing to do. It's a lot easier to blow up stuff. It's hard to do finesse.

Audience Question: Are you traveling around the country for this movie? What else do you plan to do while you are here in DC?
Rob Reiner: I just came from Boston. I threw out the first pitch in Fenway Park. And today I was at a Nat's game earlier and did a lot of press today. And tonight we're going to leave here and go to Chicago and then San Francisco after that. We'll do interviews in Los Angeles and New York. This is a film for an adult audience and we believe there is an audience out there for these kind of films. We joke that of our demographic we have a 100% desire to see with a 40% ability to get to the theater. (everyone laughs). We're hoping people will come out. And that's why we're having these screenings.

Audience Question: What was it like to grow up in your house in the 1950s and 60s? Was there ever a serious moment?
Rob Reiner: Yes, there were serious moments but it was funny. There were a lot of funny people who came to our house. And people have always asked me, "What was it like growing up in your house?" And when you're a kid you don't think, you think that's normal. That's your house. It wasn't until I went to my friend's house, I noticed they're not so funny over there. Nice people, but not many laughs.
Audience Question: Stories?
Rob Reiner: There are so many. The first time I met Mel Brooks, I was 4 years old and my sister was 2. We had a little house at the beach. My father said, "When you wake up there's a man that's coming to visit. A Man." He didn't want us to be scared if we came in and saw this strange man. "There'll be a man sleeping. Don't wake him up." So it's six o'clock in the morning. Me and my sister see this guy. I said, "Is that The Man?" My sister says, "That's The Man." Mel Brooks wakes up and sees two kids going, "Are you The Man?" Mel Brooks: "Yes I'm The Man." That was my first introduction to Mel Brooks. He was The Man. (everyone laughs).

Audience Question: Could you talk about the transformation of relationships through children? How did title "And So It Goes" come about?
Rob Reiner: The title was just something Mark Andrus came up with. We liked it when we first heard it and then we tried to think of some other titles and we kept coming back to it because it really is about living your life and just going on. That's why we left it that way. As far as kids and other people around Oren Little that affected him--he's an angry curmudgeon ready to check out. Life has dealt him a couple of tough blows. He has no relationship with son who has a drug problem. He doesn't even know about his granddaughter. His wife has passed away. He's ready to leave. It's the woman next door and the young daughter that bring him back into the real world. Again it's the women who make him see what's important in life. So that's what we wanted to do. We put Michael Douglas way out on a ledge at the beginning of the move. He's very unlikeable. And Michael was always saying, "I want to go as far out as I can go so that there's a place to go when coming back into the real world and into being human." There's always a danger in putting someone so far out there that you can't rope them back in. I believe everyone has a good heart and a bad heart. We're all good and evil. So the question is how do we get the good to come out? That usually is because you're in a relationship with people who can bring those things out of you. It's hard to believe that a woman who loves him as Diane does and a young girl who has those feelings--it's hard for him to be hard-hearted and if he is, then there's no hope for the guy. then he will not embrace life and life will pass him by and he won't have those joyous moments. All those characters around him help pull him out of the place he's in at the beginning of the movie.

Audience Question: Did Diane Keaton do all her own singing?
Rob Reiner: Yes. That's all Diane Keaton. She sang everything there. She's a very good singer. She sang a little bit in Annie Hall and little bit in a movie called Shoot the Moon. But that's all her. We picked the songs together. We tried a lot of different songs and she picked ones she felt comfortable that she could sing. I like that the character is 65 and is starting a new career at that age. It resonanated with me because my mother who died five and a half years ago was 65 when she started her singing career. It just shows that it is possible that you can grab your dream at whatever point in life you are.

Audience Question: How did you get the idea to cast Frances Sternhagen?
Rob Reiner: I worked with Frances in Misery, she plays the sheriff's wife and I loved the attitude she had. She had this very edgy salty attitude and I thought she'd be perfect for this. She has one of the great lines, "You think you invented men being assholes?"

And So It Goes is scheduled to open in area theaters on July 11.

Drones: Q&A with Director Rick Rosenthal

By Annette Graham, DC Film Society Member

A screening of Drones (Rick Rosenthal, 2013) took place June 3 at Landmark's E Street Cinema. Senator Jeff Merkley (D-Oregon) made opening remarks and a Q&A with Director Rick Rosenthal followed. The discussion was moderated by Jason Dick. Drones follows two soldiers as they attempt to locate a terrorist with their spy plane. Is he the right one and will civilians be harmed? These are some of the moral questions they deal with.

Statement by Senator Jeff Merkley:
America is on a new frontier in terms of technology and drones. The use of drones has dramatically changed the way we're conducting warfare. As recently as a decade or two ago it was a fantasy that we would be able to conduct military operations half away around the world, not putting young men and women into boots on the ground. But that fantasy has become a reality, and as we have found there is no such thing as a perfect war. While warfare has entered the 21st century, the international laws and norms that guide our warfare are very much stuck in the 20th century. We must keep in mind that there are tradeoffs in everything including and in particular the issue of the use of drones. The rapid evolution of this technology and of our strategy overseas has raised very complex, difficult questions about how we conduct warfare. This movie asks us to confront these tough questions head on. How do we apply traditional rules of engagement to decidedly non-traditional technology on battlefields that are potentially boundless? How do we make sure that our targeted campaigns strike at the right targets while avoiding civilian casualties? And are we doing everything in our power to do so? Is the effectiveness of drones outweighed by the anti-American sentiment that they create? And finally a question that has too often gone unasked about our debate over drones: What toll does it take on those men and women who are on the front line of that drone war being asked to pull the trigger? I had a chance to see this movie at Rick's invitation, and it was absolutely gripping. And I think you'll find it so as well. But it also raises these very significant and troubling issues. One of the things that has become very apparent in the use of drones in Pakistan is that they produce an enormous disaffection with the role of the United States so that's a question that can be raised in a much broader circumstance as well. Of course, the drone technology is spreading very very rapidly. This is not a technology that the U.S. is going to have a huge lead or advantage in in many ways in the years to come. That raises significant questions as well. There are certainly military issues but there are huge huge moral issues as well. I thank director Rick Rosenthal for generating this terrific film that leads us to focus intensely on these questions.

Q&A with Director Rick Rosenthal:
Jason Dick: I'm the Capital Hill editor of Roll Call newspaper and it's my pleasure to introduce the director of the film Rick Rosenthal. Let's start with the title of the film, "Drones." It can be read two ways. On the one level we have the drones who are doing the surveillance, but it can also be applied to the people who are powering them, even though they are are humans.
Rick Rosenthal: We wondered in production was this too generic a title? We went through Reaper 13, that sounded like a horror film. In the end we came back to this simple title, because we liked the duality of it and felt that it opened it up. The drones movies are coming. I think we are the first one, but I know that there are films in development now all over.

Jason Dick: You're interested in movies about underdogs and movies about redemption. This functions almost like a one act play; it's very tense, it moves very quickly, it gets to the point. But you learn quite a bit about these two characters, about where they come from, about their backgrounds, they're both underdogs and both are attempting their own redemptions.
Rick Rosenthal: It reads like a play because it started as a play. This was an adaptation of a play and I've since produced it. It's a tricky deal to adapt a play because you want to be truthful and faithful to the material but you also want to move it up and there's only so far you can go and you are also dealing with budgetary constraints. In the end we hoped you would be interested in watching these two characters interact and that that would be the cornerstone of the film and their transitions and transformations would keep you engaged. We created Afghanistan, that was not in the play. We built this little compound that you see out about 40 minutes north of Los Angeles. We wanted to try to have the audience see only what our characters saw. Except for the almost last shot in the film we never go down to Afghanistan, you only see Afghanistan through the eyes of the drone cameras.

Jason Dick: You mentioned some of the budgetary constraints. This is your own production company and you had some budget constraints. It seems like a conscious effort to contrast a big movie like Apocaplyse Now which you made reference to with "Ride of the Valkyries" when he goes in. There's almost a squalor to this type of warfare. They're in trailers with air conditioners that don't work.
Rick Rosenthal: It's an irony that technology is growing on one level to kill people, but the air conditioning doesn't work. We are headed into a future where more and more work and even some thinking will be done by robots and robotics and machines. It's an interesting moral ground that we are begining to venture into.

Audience Question: Moral implications are rather interesting within the context of this particular movie. How do you weigh, for example, killing one individual to save five? What's your feeling about this?
Rick Rosenthal: I don't think the film is pro drones or anti drones. But it raises the question, when a mission is executed and the intel is correct, it prevents an attack on US troops, and it's what would be called a clean mission. How do you weigh that against the mission in which the intel is faulty and innocent lives are lost and the tide is turned against American policy? We're seeing that more and more back and forth.

Audience Question: How technologically accurate is the movie?
Rick Rosenthal: We visited a Homeland Security Drone Base. We saw the footage that we were allowed to see, which is not as clear as this footage. We inspected the plane and the cameras and lenses. They told us that the lens on the drone cameras cost over $1 million. They are looking at images from five miles up. We took a little bit of liberty in that the images that you are seeing in the film are of higher clarity than what we were shown but I don't think we were shown classified footage. To that degree, I can't give you a precise answer. But in terms of the process in the way these mission are run, it was not only vetted by going down there and discussing with drone pilots but also we had a tech advisor who is a drone pilot based outside of Las Vegas.

Audience Question: The military protocol of it seemed a little unrealistic to me.
Rick Rosenthal: In what way?
Audience Question: That if you had a couple of drone pilots in a room that were responsible for taking out a high targeted individual and all of a sudden they were being insubordinate. It seems a little shocking that someone wouldn't come in immediately and remove them from their duties and do what was ordered.
Rick Rosenthal: This is the scenario we chose to portray. Most of the time I found that what seems slightly unbelievable you can find that there are missions exactly like this.
Jason Dick: There's a reason it's called the fog of war. Sometimes we just don't know how believable or unbelievable a mission would be. Just varies from one to another.

Audience Question: Is the movie trying to point out that standards of morality have to change as technology advances?
Rick Rosenthal: I don't think the filmmakers are taking a stand that it has to change. I think we're shining on a light on the fact that it becomes increasingly complicated. It's not nearly as simple as it used to be. Maybe we need to take another look at how we make decisions in life and death situations.

Audience Question: What sort of parallels are there with Private Manning and Edward Snowden?
Rick Rosenthal: You take your parallels as you look at them. This was a film that was in development before all that went on. There is information that the public doesn't know about that. There is the question that Sue asks, when it is the moral responsibility of the soldier to question authority, to question information, to question intelligence when it seems to contradict what is right there in front of them. I think those questions continue. To the degree that we have this incredible technology, the technology still needs to have a morality to it.

Audience Question: Have you had any screenings with the military?
Rick Rosenthal: This is only about the fourth screening of the film. We are just starting.

The film was scheduled to open in theaters on June 27. It is also available on VOD and iTunes.

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